Me: I thought these kinds of questions were only for people in the Work Related Activity Group?
JC: No, we're asking people in the Support Group. It's because you're in the Support Group that we're doing this over the phone rather than asking you to come in in person.
Me: Well I don't have any aims. Given the state of my health, aspiring to do something would just be false hope.
JC: It says here that you're interested in stand up comedy...
Me: Yes, that's what I used to do before I became too ill to carry on.
JC: Was you like on TV? Or comedy clubs?
Me: I only got to do stand up for two and a half years before I became too ill to carry on. No-one makes it onto TV in only two and a half years.
JC: So, has your health deteriorated?
Me: Not really since my last Atos assessment in December 2012. I've gotten a couple of new diagnoses, but nothing significant.
JC: [slightly concerned] But you're OK though, right?
Me: Not really, no!
JC: OK. That's fine. If you ever come in here ask to see me, [name].
As Latentexistence says:
@lisybabe Well that's worrying. They could easily make things much worse if they call some people.
— Tentacle Sixteen (@latentexistence) March 4, 2014Edited to add: I should have mentioned that I didn't answer on the first go. During the 30 hours prior to this conversation, she'd tried to call 3 times while I was asleep.
This really is worrying as I'm in the Support Group myself.
ReplyDeleteIs it just my justified paranoia about the government or could this be the start of something really, really worrying?
It's really concerning that they're ringing people in the support group. What are they hoping to achieve? I'm in the WRAG and got a phone call where they claimed they were just doing a 'review' and then asked me about any changes in my health. It made me suspicious. I do worry a lot about people who can't cope with phone calls or interrogative people contacting them, or even those who suffer from fatigue. Something like this could just trigger a whole host of problems.
ReplyDeleteYou've rightly highlighted a group of people that also concerns me. Some people simply can't take 'out of the blue interrogative' phone calls.
DeleteAgain, I agree with you on what you say about a phone call like this triggering '...a whole host of problems.'.
Are they hoping that by using these 'bully-boy' tactics on such vulnerable people might trap them into saying something just to end a stressful phone conversation?
I wouldn't be at all surprised if these calls were being recorded. This government is capable of doing just about everything that is immoral, unethical and just plain evil.
I am one of those people who genuinely can't cope with phone calls, even those pre-arranged. Even though I don't answer any calls that I don't know they can cause problems with relapses and stress conditions (I've had seizures triggered by continued mortgage calls).
DeleteI thoroughly believe that I should have the right to be safe from harm in my own home. Alas, phone calls and letters, texts and emails still persist.
i never trust anyone on the phone, especially asking personal stuff,we brits are way to polite at times, disconnecting a call isnt actually difficult, it takes the push of one button or say hang on and leave the phone unattended for ever, your excuse i forgot about you, and has we would be asked to prove who we are had we called them then the same should apply to them but of course they havent set up passwords and we dont have their private data so thats good enough reason to end the call,im sure our dear police force would back you on this one and cold callers.
DeleteI would also be suspicious! I once recieved a crank call from someone that new the fact that I was disabled! When contacting the police, about this, to say they were concerned is an under statement..! My advice is hang up & contact the police. If it is a genuine call, then it shouldn't be out of the blue! They should at least write to you 1st & request that you call them at an appropriate moment via a free & direct phone number..! That, atleast is what I would do..!
DeleteThe only way a scammer could have gotten hold of that much information about me (both phone numbers, diagnoses, employment history) would be if someone at the DWP had left my file on a train.
DeleteAdmittedly; that's possible. But why would a scammer bother to call to ask me my aims in life? Scammers generally want your credit card details or bank account number.
I never answer the phone unless I know the number calling me!!
DeleteThey possibly would have asked security questions first, I never give them out to unsolisited callers I just put the phone down or tell them they have them in front of them so they don't need them.
DeleteI'd say "Hang on a minute , i have a summary here..." and then start reading the HCP report to them from last WCA. RIDICULOUS to be hounding people.
ReplyDeleteDisturbing and makes me wonder if they could use this 'review' to claim a change in circumstances and then either sanction or prosecute based on that.
ReplyDeleteIf the claimant receives DLA they might have to make a PIPs claim if the JC find any reason to say there's a change in circumstance. PIP is tougher to get, even though DLA was pretty hard to claim successfully.
DeletePlus - you don't have to give the DWP your phone number, because any time you answer the phone and converse with them, they could claim it means you are fit for work. A mental health advocate I know said this was used by the DWP to contest an appeal hearing he attended.
I wonder whether this is linked to the operational decision not to reassess ESA claimants until they have HCP's available to do the reassessments? Maybe they can't bear to leave claimants "festering" (as if!!) so feel obliged to "check up on them"!! But worrying, yes, for all sorts of reasons...
ReplyDeleteThe current situation is what made it seem so weird: If they're not doing reassessments: Why were they blatantly fishing to see if they could start a change of circs review?
Deletei had this happen to me a couple years back, so it nowt new, my understanding is that assessments will happen for those already booked up ie me, but will eventually go on hold, of course for those of you that dont know ATOS have anew name Oh Assisst
Deletehttp://tompride.wordpress.com/2014/03/03/atos-denies-in-public-it-is-atos/
also for those that arnt aware there are several facebook groups opposed to ATOS and the system, the more that join them and the further we can spread the word and make more people wise to these tricks quickly the better for all
"JC: [slightly concerned] But you're OK though, right?"
ReplyDeleteAlthough there is much more to it than this, when you feel you are talking to someone who understands your difficulties, hence "slightly concerned" you can say you are feeling okay because they understand the context. This inappropriate phone call would, in many cases, elicit a compliant agreement that the person was okay. BANG. This kind of passive-aggressive intimidation and entrapment is wholly out of order.
My phone is always connected to the the answerfone, no way i could get to it in time. If its anyone i need to chat to they can leave a number. Id suggest everyone do the same.
ReplyDeleteHi Lisa, thanks for posting this disturbing development so that others will be forewarned and able to raise it with their M.P., etc. As a general item of good practice for members of the public I think it would be best to refuse to answer any questions relating to health, employment status or just to confirm that N.I. details, employment or Benefit related decisions they quoted over the phone are correct. It is very difficult to confirm the identity of a caller, let alone whether that person is acting on behalf of a government department. Of the potential risk increases where private contractors such as ATOS or CAPITA., etc I'm not stating that the person who phoned was not from the DHS, but that there is a risk that very important private data could be obtained if this process by government was adopted and people are forced to respond without security issues being considered.
ReplyDeleteNever confirm personal details over the phone unless you are 100% sure of who you are talking to (ie, actually met them, a pre-arranged call etc). I won't even confirm my DoB. "Can you just answer some security questions before we begin?" has me respond "No. I can't." They called me, they have not provided any evidence of their identity, they usually refuse to tell me why they are calling unless I answer their questions... standard phishing technique to gain information about you for identity theft/fraud. "No, I will not give you any personal information, even if you claim to already have it - and if you already have it why do you need me to tell you it, hmm? I do not know who you are. Send me a letter." My bank only took 3 years to learn that those calls were a waste of both our time.
DeleteMy current favourite is "Hi, this is Julius from Microsoft Technical Support. You have a virus on your computer." If you have any computer knowledge at all, you can play with them for a while (if you have the time and inclination) and feel good about yourself for taking up so much time that they can't harrass as many people as usual.
Toxic drums, Your right, indeed I would have, that is prior to reading your comment, answered that way myself. Furthermore, when I had cancer I answered in that manner as a matter of fact; it's a problem with being British with a government that apes the worst of North American social policies (i.e. quite reserve and understatement is not reasoned with intelligence and compassion, but merely within a commercial based mentality.
ReplyDeletehang up. refuse to even talk to them
ReplyDeleteI'd already missed 3 calls from her...
DeleteDo NOT give them a real phone number in the first place. If it's too late and they got it, just slam the phone down. Know your callers, if not someone you know usually it's narrowed down to con artists, cold callers or wrong number.
ReplyDeleteRight. Because having them send me a letter with a date and time summoning me to the Job Centre would be preferable to answering the same questions by phone.
DeleteI tried to add a second paragraph, but my phone threw a hissy fit and decided to not let me type any more...
DeleteWhat I tried to add was that withholding your phone number from the people who pay you your income isn't wise. What if the person entering your details into the system can't read your handwriting and needs to phone you to clarify your bank account number? Not giving them your number could result in payment delays.
"My ambition is to get through a whole month without someone like you making me worse. That's thirty whole days when you don't write, ring, call, screw up my claim, steal my money, decide I'm magically better or change the rules so I have to do the whole palaver again. Think you can manage that?"
ReplyDeleteI failed my atos medical, and I had to go on jsa. After about 8 months ive gone on the sick again, took my sick note to jobseekers they gave me a phone number to ring, and an envelope to send the sick note in. They said we will send me a esa50 form to fill in and send it back to them. That was 3 weeks ago, and im still waiting. Ive phoned up twice, and they say its been sent. I have my doubts. I don't know what I'm going to live on from next week.
ReplyDeleteYour doctor, health visitor (if you have one), social worker (if you have one), your child's school (if you have any) or the CAB can refer you to your local food bank for a 3 day supply of emergency food.
DeleteMy nearest food bank is over 3 miles away. The CAB service is only open Tuesday afternoon to appointments and Wednesday's. We have two phone boxes , at opposite sides of the town.
DeleteHow do they expect people to contact them on the 0845 numbers and get to food banks with no cash flow.
Life is hard enough without it being made impossible by our government, who are meant to look after the "welfare" of its citizens.
You're preaching to the choir about how the state should support us and we shouldn't have to depend on charity food banks.
DeleteIf you have a food bank voucher but can't get to a food bank; and don't have any friends or family who could help you get there, it might be worth explaining that you're disabled, you can't get there, and asking if they have any volunteers that could drop you off a food parcel? Even if no food bank volunteers can help; they're usually run out of churches and the church might have some kind of volunteering scheme where one of them could drop a parcel off.
I have to say I would never answer questions on the phone, regardless of who they are., then even If I wanted to, I would request they give me a phone number to which I would call them back for security reasons. Then If I still want to answer questions I give them my mobile number because I tell them I am not in a confidential situation and need to go outside to talk.
ReplyDeleteIf you register with them and state you have an hearing impairment, they are obliged to contact you by mail. Never, never respond to questions on the phone they have a duty of care.
I feel I must point out that this person with a Google username of "Admin" is not an admin of this blog.
DeleteWould it be at all cynical of me to suggest an argument will be made (by some ATOS/DWP cretin) that 'On March 5 at 14:30 a telephone call was made to Miss Egan; she was clear, concise, made complex use of language and would be ideally suited to a role in the service industry'.
ReplyDeleteIt would mean plumbing new (but not entirely unexpected) depths.......
"You called me and now you want me to prove my identity by answering personal questions? Really? How do I know who you are? The last phone call I got was from someone claiming to be from Microsoft Technical Support. I know he was lying. How do I know you aren't? No, I do not give personal information out to people I cannot identify. Send me a letter. Thanks, Goodbye."
ReplyDeleteI use a variation of the above with ANYONE I do not know personally who has not already arranged in advance to call me (usually by me calling them and asking for a call back) about anything. This includes the bank, electricity/gas suppliers, phone/isp, any govt department etc.
The problem is the Job center staff are in the same position , they too are under pressure , Its a horrible situation created by ignorance by people who have no money problems .In reality the sick and unemployed are getting the blame and being a scape goat for the fact that wages are too low . get the standard wage up to £15 per hour then the dhs payments wont be the same as working for a living and all this finger pointing and trouble munging tactics will stop .The dhs payment(all 4% of the social budget) is a safety for poverty, it prevents people having to sell their worldly possessions before moving out their home to the streets to face illegal camping laws and being moved on . this ethnic cleansing must stop , already dislike is being created towards the unemployed and sick through media propaganda , where will it end ? a concentration camp ? What are people supposed to do with no payments for weeks? creating evictions and a total disaster in a hard enough to survive situation as it is . people sanctioned should claim compensation for damages to their life and future . .
ReplyDelete